水产动物肠道健康及鱼粉替代@诺伟司水产事业部在线交流（1楼提供课件下载）

水宝宝

kanhai 发表于 2013-1-18 21:03
能谈谈如何保护养殖对虾肠道的健康避免肠炎的发生
对虾育苗过程中，又该如何来预防提高成活率

Gut health and survival is the biggest challange in shrimp culture today, the challanges are from bacterial and many due to the impact of feed ingredients. For bacterial challanges what in successful countries are doing is managing by using Gut Environment Modifiers whihc can be AFG (organic acids) and NE150 (essential oils). these products protect the animals against pathogenic bacteria, improve the digestibility of the feed, improve the FCR, improve growth and suvival. In terms of feed ingredients I think its high time to look for alternative proteins and move away from the fundamental approach of high fish meal diets and balance the feed with limited amino acids such as methionine and moving from inorganic minerals to chelated minerals. Many times also it has been seen when we shift to plant proteins from animal proteins we add to the gut problems because the plant proteins have high anti nutritional factors, mycotoxins and low digestibility, so in order to have the best nutrition available its not only balancing at protein levels but on all factors as mentioned earlier and adding functional additives such as antioxidant to prevent oxidantion of the feed, mycotoxin binders and attractants.

水宝宝

鱼体偏肥是否和长期使用膨化料有一定关系？

Piet：With extruded feeds, we are using often using higher energy in the feed. There is a relation between the digestible protein/digestible energy ratio and fat fish. too much digestible energy and not enough digestible protein will affect the fish shape negatively.

水宝宝

天涯游虾 发表于 2013-1-22 16:38
看看这几条虾，中间的两条我认为是营养不良导致的，主要症状就是甲壳薄，易死亡，各位有啥看法，谢谢了

Nayak:
Japonicus and Monodon have a habit of going to the bottom of the pond as compared to the white shrimps whihc stay in the water column, these differences in color of the shrimp and the soft shell to a large extent is due to bad pond bottom with high ammonia and hydrogen sulphide. Corrective measures is use of probiotics and remove of sludge or bottom water exchange.Make sure the alkanity and the pH is also optimum and the DO early morning is sufficient.Avoid over feeding and control FCR, right source of minerals for the animals is also essential to vaoid blue shrimps and soft shell so farmer should ask feed mills to use chelated minerals.

XXT

好像是授课，不是交流？

水宝宝

水宝宝 发表于 2013-1-22 17:33
Nayak:
Japonicus and Monodon have a habit of going to the bottom of the pond as compared to the w ...

Auto feeder is the latest technology in optimizing feeding and use of minimum labor which is become expensive. By this model we avoid over feeding which can be human error as well as continued feeding avoids leaching of many nutrients from the feed as it is eaten immedeately the  moment feed is injected into the pond.Standardizing is an important step in auto feeder and then only get good FCR. In Thailand people have achieved FCR to the tune of 1.1 - 1.2 in shrimps with high stocking density of 100 to 150 pcs per sq.m

陶青燕

鳊鱼的粘液问题：
现实中很多鳊鱼在捕捞起来时没有粘液、掉鳞，请问陶博士有什么办法来解决？
鳊鱼黏液的问题首先肯定是肝脏的问题,目前国内鳊鱼的高脂肪已经超过了这个品种的最适需要量.如果要追求生长速度,能量降下来的可能性很小,所以首先是要提供高品质的油脂,避免氧化油脂及霉菌毒素对肝脏的损伤.另外,即使使用特别优质的原料,肝脏损伤对于这种品种也是风险很高的.因为高脂肪日粮本身会导致自由基的大量产生,如果机体不能消除这些自由基,损伤是在所难免的.有大量研究表明,高脂日粮会导致大量器官的损伤,其中肝脏自由基的数量会上升4倍左右.这也是为什么大家特别是养殖户使用一定的vc会有一定的效果。但这不是最经济有效的办法，诺伟司的体内抗氧化剂专门针对体内自由基，是更专业经济有效的办法。

syusuke

水宝宝

虾兵鱼将 发表于 2013-1-21 13:12
虾料公司生产过程中都会添加一定量的虾壳粉，用来促进对虾蜕壳，但是市场上虾壳粉的质量和数量很难保证，不 ...

Piet Verstaete: With extruded feeds, we are using higher energy, higher energy can bring some nutritional stress if overfeeding occurs (liver problems) or if the formula is not balanced (amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc..). Also in extruded feeds we are often using more oil in coating and the oxidation of the oil can induce stress. Too much carbhydrate will also cause liver problems and fish stop feeding. Also, feeding higher energy feeds uses more oxygen for digestion.On the farm side: More checks on oxygen levels on the feeds are needed when feeding higher energy diets. So the time of feeding and the ration size should be managed better with extruded feeds compared with pelleted (lower energy feeds).On the feed size: extrududed feeds should be well balanced and if a lot of oil is coated, the oil shoudl be fresh band treated with anti-oxidants. It is also wise to increase the levels of vitamin E and vitamin E to reduce the stress of the fish and some phospholipid, choline and inositol to protect the liver.

XXT

请问：海水育苗料，用膨化机生产浮料0.5、0.8规格是否可行？具体操作要注意哪些？国外海水苗料是如何生产提供的？

first薏

不错，是个创新来的。

syusuke

syusuke

水宝宝

nothing 发表于 2013-1-22 16:04
现在资源的匮乏，如传统配方中的，肝脏粉，鱼油，鱼粉等含量方面和很多年前的指标差别大了。
那么对于对虾 ...

Piet Verstaete: an alternative of controlled quality, but more expensive is krill meal. Alternatives to krill meal to improve moulting is to increase phospholipid levels, cholesterol levels and/or add bile salts.

Piet Verstaete: Cholesterol is less an less used because of its high price, generally we try to improve the cholesterol available from ingredients by using emulsifiers and increasing phospholipid levels.

陶青燕

鱼粉的替代问题是一个综合性较强的技术问题，现在也没有一个可以执行的标准，更多的是靠经验来使用。请问是否可以将鱼粉与豆粕的替代比例化，如：一份鱼粉=几份豆粕（补充缺乏的氨基酸），这样在原料的价值运用上就可以通过价格运算来评价原料价值，谢谢

市场传太高鱼粉替代的成果不错，那请他们比较系统详细介绍一下鱼粉替代情况

这两个问题放在一起来交流，因为这实际上是同一个问题。关于鱼粉替代其中国一直有自己的思路，那就是原料的替代，这种原料间的替代关系为我们在有限的原料品种内寻找最优的组合提供了帮助，这种方式充分利用了原料间营养素的互补平衡。是原料的平衡。但不但是Skretting,Ewos等企业更看重的是营养素的平衡而不是原料间的替代关系。所以这些平衡包括基础层面的氨基酸平衡，矿物元素平衡以及能量蛋白平衡。我们大家对氨基酸的使用还有很多的顾虑，其实更多的是氨基酸使用的技术还没有完全掌握，大量的替代鱼粉必须依赖氨基酸的补充，需要多少补充多少。此外鱼粉替代后所带来的综合问题包括肠炎等都必需同时考虑，所以数量营养与功能营养必须同时进行，否则替代是不会成功的。泰高依赖自己的肠道健康平台打造了微平衡的核心技术。这些技术针对三文鱼鱼粉替代出现的问题进行了大量的研究，比如豆粕诱导的肠炎，低鱼粉下的白内障，心脏疾病等。我们如果简单考虑营养素的平衡，而没有功能营养的保障这种替代是很难有效的，特别是高替代量的情况下。

水宝宝

快乐的鱼 发表于 2013-1-21 14:00
请诺伟司谈谈高档肉食性鱼（大口鲇、黄颡鱼等）饲料中如何进行鱼粉的替代？最少鱼粉用在多少？还有晶体氨基 ...

外源AA的的平衡在国外已经相当成熟，当然，鱼粉的替代，MET的平衡仅仅是众多营养素平补充和平衡第一位的，我们还会考虑，鱼粉替代后对诱食的影响，PUFA的影响，盐分的影响，微量元素，P等等，除了从营养量的角度与平衡外，我们还须在功能性营养的方面加以考虑。诺伟司蛋氨酸由于特殊的分子结构使其能在机体内生理缓释，而具有优秀的蛋氨酸效价外，由于分子结构不同，同时具有酸化剂功能，和优良的诱食功能。

水宝宝

快乐的鱼 发表于 2013-1-21 14:00
请诺伟司谈谈高档肉食性鱼（大口鲇、黄颡鱼等）饲料中如何进行鱼粉的替代？最少鱼粉用在多少？还有晶体氨基 ...

外源AA的的平衡在国外已经相当成熟，当然，鱼粉的替代，MET的平衡仅仅是众多营养素平补充和平衡第一位的，我们还会考虑，鱼粉替代后对诱食的影响，PUFA的影响，盐分的影响，微量元素，P等等，除了从营养量的角度与平衡外，我们还须在功能性营养的方面加以考虑。诺伟司蛋氨酸由于特殊的分子结构使其能在机体内生理缓释，而具有优秀的蛋氨酸效价外，由于分子结构不同，同时具有酸化剂功能，和优良的诱食功能。

水宝宝

因为时间关系，我们的交流先到这里，还有很多没有回答的问题，Nayak、Piet以及诺伟司全球的水产技术专家将会在稍后的时间一一为我们解答，诺伟司也欢迎大家继续提问，他们将继续与各位论坛的朋友交流探讨。

感谢几位嘉宾一个下午认真的解答，感谢！

九天飞龙

坚持基本的技术理念很重要,做技术的不要被市场竞争被动的牵着鼻子走,诺伟司这次的对话确实象那位同仁说的象讲课,但是基础理论扎实,反过来让我们看到了可以应用的深度

夜之哀伤

还没翻译出来？{:soso_e100:}

lq03112

感谢各位大牛的精彩解答，受益良多。最后提一个问题：请问氨基酸平衡技术在商业配方中应用需要注意哪些具体问题？